What other choices are there, that don't fall under the original three choices?
AK - Jeff
JoinedPosts by AK - Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
The theist who have posted on this thread have uttered a lot of words. But very few have addressed the original point above.
Please logically disprove it if you can - that was the entire point of the thread. You haven't proven anything, except that you want to believe in god no matter if he allows millions of kids to starve to death every year. You still desire to call him a loving heavenly father. You still wish him to be omniscient and omnipotent, in spite of the fact that he does not act. You still seek to unshoulder the burden of these starving children onto mankind - when that was never the point.
It is not my responsibilty either to feed all the hungry of the world. But if I could do so, I would do so. So either God is unsympathetic, uncaring, unable, or not there.
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
In this area then, the application of any religious order or culture that believes that higher spirits can and do affect mankind, the original post stands -
Still, no theists will address the original premise with facts. Here it is again if you have forgotten:
Estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet. That's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept. Still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?
1- God is evil.
2- God cannot or will not hear and answer prayers.
3- An omnipotent god simply does not exist.Some have backed into acceptance of Premise #2. But none has openly admitted that IF he exists, then he either doesn't care; i.e.; doesn't answer prayers, cannot hear them, or is impotent in doing the work needed to resolve this issue -
This conundrum is inescapable it seems for them. For there is no acceptable answer except wavering and playing ignorant to the original discussion point.
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
Regarding the matter of God and Buddha - you are correct Nancy, that I erred in stating Buddha a god. Technically, Buddhist [or many of them] do not worship a god, as such. But they certainly practice spirituallity, and believe in a spirit world.
Buddhists do venerate Noble ones. The two main schools of Buddhism differ in this.
Theravada Buddhists view the Buddha as a human being who attained nirvana through human efforts. Mahayana Buddhists think him an embodiment of Darkmakaya and not merely a human being. Some Mahayana Buddhists worship Bodhisattva chief and hope to embody him. Buddhists do accept the existence of beings in higher realms. In fact the Buddha is often portrayed as a teacher of the gods, and superior to them. So, although they don't worship a God in the same sense as Christians and Jews and Muslims, they certainly believe that a higher spirit world affects mankind and afterlife.
Mea Culpa for not choosing one of the other more typical god-worshipping groups to mention in my post. The point was made, if you find it too confusing, then substitute another branch of Abrahamic theology.
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
What I find interesting to contemplate in review of the fairy-tale arguments presented here by the believers guild is this:
Yahweh, Allah, and Buddha are very different gods. No one here believes in all of them. It can likely be safely stated that all of the believers here consider themselves superior for they have 'found the true god'. You stubbornly refuse to see that your 'faith' is nothing more than something borrowed from your culture - you are not special to the Christian God - you were just born into a Christian culture. That fact supports the argument that your faith is not 'special' - you are not specially selected by any of the gods mentioned. You are basically a victim of your circumstances. No more, no less.
You are defending then an idea - a concept - not reality. You cannot prove that your god exists and the Buddhist god does not, can you? You and the Buddhist are equally deluded, by the same concept that has deluded superstitious men and women for centuries. And the root of that superstition is selfishness - you are too good to die forever. You are not like 'them', those evil pagans [even the starving Muslim children in Africa].
You will go likely to your own graves defending a concept that neither you nor anyone else has ever defended with logical proof or even logical evidence that might lead to proof. You will do this because you are afraid to die - forever dead that is. You are worthy of more than that - surely god has a plan for you. And you continue to think that by showing 'faith' in this man construct called god that he will reward you.
Even when confronted with options as to why God does not act [first post in case you forgot], the same confrontation made by logical minds and philosophers over thousands of years of time - you just punt. You don't/won't/can't discuss the logical argument, that leads to one of the conclusions listed, because it violates the fantasy you have built in your mind - your personal dissonance. So you seek tangents. You refuse to answer the specifics of the philosophical logic and divert the discussion all over hells half acre.
WHAT ARROGANCE! By seeking to defend your self-serving position you are willing to ignore the pain and suffering of millions of dying children every year with a whisk of the hand, saying 'God has a better plan for them'. You blame mankind, who in his limited power has failed to overcome the difficult circumstances involved to eliminate these disasters - though he has surely tried. Can you refuse forever to see that if all of mankind would drop the religious nonsense of believing in invisible beings who have to date shown precisely zero interest in solving these major problems - if just that idiocy was disbanded - perhaps mankind could find ways to solve the problem. The problem is faith. Not a lack of it. Religion has always been the barrier that divides mankind. After all - why bother? God will fix it all eventually - right? Why should the fact that my god allows millions of starving children to die every year indicate that perhaps he doesn't really care - or gasp - might not even be real except in my mind?
WOW.
Night all.
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
I'm out of here for now. I can't take the insanity of people posting idiocy and thinking it is wise.
Jesus J Christ [the cussword, not the savior]
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
I just want to tell you your new name Jeff, it's Oh No. Read it. It sounds like a bad poem. Keep trying. Do you own a gun?
Does this make any sense to anyone? What the hell does any of that shit mean?
And you wonder why none of the intelligent posters on this thread give you the time of day?
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
Yes - pretty original. LOL
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
On this page, Nancy and A Guest have shown us the real issues.
God is partial. God is evil. God ignores sincerity and blesses very few. He is no refuge to anyone. In this regard they embrace #1. More often they embrace #2, an impotent god who cannot hear or act - which is not far from #1.
How sad. Uber and Cofty hit it on the head. Nancy will never get it - A Guest never has.
Wow. The depths of delusion are powerful and condemnatory, for eventually it becomes clear what corner those who embrace an evil god must be in, with no exit.
Jeff
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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AK - Jeff
Actually AGuest, I have read very little of what you have written - primarily because it all sounds like gibberish to me most of the time, and I usually don't have time to read a small essay or book that you write each time.
Your comment is a precise acceptance then of #2 isn't it? This comment I mean:
in fact,there is another choice: that the Most Holy One of Israel has never promised to solve the ills of THIS world... but only those of certain people IN this world.
God is not interested in the ills of man - unless as you state, it is certain men or people of whom he shows interest. So, he does not answer the prayers about starvation from a general mankind groaning under the pain of this horror?
Makes me want to jump right into your camp! Let's all go worship an asshole who picks and chooses what groups to bless - so poor starving Ethiopian children must not be on the list - or cancer sufferers - or people with heart disease - or lepers - or perhaps Russians or Chinese people? Or Buddhists?
But if we join AGuest's goofy group he will listen to us. OMG! Your just a JW in a different skin, eh?
Jeff